Kjell van Zoen built businesses, optimized systems, and learned how to create cultures that helped people do better work. But while running Plywerk, a company that mounted photography onto bamboo and maple panels, Kjell found themself in a meeting about scaling the business into every strip mall in America. On paper, it sounded like growth. Internally, it felt like a warning.
That moment became a turning point. Kjell realized they were no longer optimizing for the same version of success. The goal was no longer growth at all costs. The deeper question became: what kind of work allows people to show up honestly, safely, and with agency?
In this conversation, Brian and Kjell explore the relationship between identity and work, including Kjell’s experience coming out as non-binary, navigating corporate systems, learning to code shift, and redefining leadership as support rather than control.
This episode is a grounded reflection on alignment, belonging, and the quiet cost of staying in environments that require too much hiding.
Enjoy!
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